Opening a new thread with the last post of "Mythology" as he subject shifted.
A lot of what I hear Father telling Vincent is that this relationship (and perhaps any other) will cause him unhappiness.
No dear Pat. Not a lot, and only in the beginning. He says so *twice*, once in the Pilot, and once in Song of Orpheus, plus the "Your relationship with my son is a tragic mistake" of No Way Down: all of them *before* the blessed closure with Margaret. After Song of Orpheus, after his own lover’s bitterness was somehow healed, his attitude changes, and you’ll find only him standing for both of them and praying. After that, he only says that their life together is impossible -- which is true, and which also Catherine says (China Moon, A Happy Life – and somehow also in Orphans, when she realizes she does not want to live Below, after all). I suppose that the correct way of approaching this perception of Father and Catherine (not of Vincent, by the way – we never hear him saying so, quite the contrary: Catherine: One thing I learned from Vincent—Nothing is impossible! =Ashes Ashes) would be to discuss what “together” means for them, not what “possible” means, as we do see that it IS possible to some degree.
There is an unspoken question here: why would you want to do something that will cause you unhappiness? Where is the logic in that? Of course, Father never says this. But why does Father say this? (me with my why questions!) All relationships have periods of unhappiness in them. In some respects, we probably need them to grow within the relationship. But to say that to someone would make me think that the sayer has had some particularly bad relationships causing the sayer to conclude that relationships are more unhappiness than happiness and would be better to be avoided. Or, in this particular case, there is something specific in this relationship to cause Vincent and Catherine unhappiness. So what would that be? (again, with the questions!) I agree that Vincent cannot join Catherine Above, and that Catherine would not be happy solely Below. Both of these characters know this. And still they seek to forge a path for their dream. So what is to cause the unhappiness from Father's perspective? I am really asking this question!
And I am unable to reply, if we’re speaking of the episodes and not of our personal take on the show and its characters: and I don’t see the attitude you’re describing in the episodes. Or better, we see precisely what you say, a growth. But a curious fandom perception forgets such growth, to remember only a few stereotyped and worn out phrases, out of context and out of the storyline. Father fears for Vincent, as a parent does, but as a parent, he wants his son’s happiness, and he *knows* that Catherine brings him happiness. What we see is that after such first initial diffidence, Father rejoiced and watched with hope to his son’s thorny path to happiness with Catherine. After SoO, this is what we hear Father saying:
Vincent: Our bond is stronger and deeper than either of us can begin to imagine.
Father: As if both your... destinies were inextricably linked.
Father: As if your hearts in their search for union could transcend time and space, circumvent the laws of physics and probability.
Father: I sometimes feel... I'm standing on the bank of a raging river, watching you try to swim across. How can I not worry? I'd be a fool. And yet Vincent, at the same time, I have to marvel at your courage.
Vincent: Catherine swims across that river as well. She faces the same dangers, shows the same courage. And in many ways the toll on her is even greater.
Father: You really think that's so?
Vincent: On her side of the river there is no one standing on the bank, watching. On her side of the river there is no one praying for her safe passage. On her side of the river, Father, there is no one but Catherine.
Father: Then I shall stand watch, and pray, for both of you.
Father: Then trust in that, Vincent... It's a remarkable thing, to feel the beat of a woman's heart, on a distant shore.
Father: How is Catherine.
Vincent: Alive. Safe.
Father: If only there was some way in which I could keep both of you safe... to shield you from harm... from pain.
Vincent: From life.
Father: Because I love you, Vincent, I love both of you.
Father: Catherine…Dear Catherine, you must know by now that you’re part of that miracle…You saw him…and all that he is…and you gave him…You gave him a dream. For that, I shall be forever grateful.
Father: You miss her.
Vincent: I miss feeling her near, knowing where to find her.
Father: How fortunate you are, Vincent, to know that feeling.
Father: I never dreamed I'd one day look on Catherine…with the fondness that I do.
Vincent: It's been a time filled with things we never dreamed of… It's been the most miraculous year of my life.
Father: You know, you two share something quite extraordinary…Something that touches the best in all of us.
Now, an interesting discussion would be trying to understand why generally the fans are blind to all this.