It is okay, my dear stressed-out Pat, to wait to read and respond to posts until your circumstances stabilize and you have leisure to pursue pastimes that are unrelated to your livelihood. ***hugs*** I'm sorry technical misfortunes have caused you such grief and frustration. I hope the problem can be resolved as swiftly and painlessly as possible.
Pat wrote:I suspect there is an element of conformity about which you are reacting in this situation.
My friend, where there is love, I don't bother myself about matters of conformity, for love does not demand conformity. Where there is love, I join and cultivate the loving activity with all that I am. Where there is unlove, however, I resist conforming to unloving purposes with all that I am. You describe "normalization" as a natural process of centralized acclimation to elements from "outer boundaries." I am speaking of "normalization" as the forcible masking and restraint of vibrant beauty through the application of negative stereotypes. Our definitions are at odds.
Pat wrote:I invite you to consider that this show is a teacher for whom the student is ready...
I know that. None better.
Pat wrote:...some may never see in this show what you or I see.
I know that too.
Pat wrote:The entertainment arts are subjective, however...
Art is not subjective. Art appreciation is subjective. Art is a specific statement made by the artist(s). Interpretation is a reactive statement made by the recipient of the artwork: a basic statement can be made in response to the artwork at an initial level, and further statements may occur during interaction with the artistic message at deeper levels, and over time.
Pat wrote:By this do you mean, for example, stories where Catherine never dies?
Nope. "She never dies" tales feature a popular plot device in fandom, not the trend of unloving stereotypes and prejudices that I am wrangling here. In pondering "corrective" abridgements of the Dream, SND never crossed my mind.
Pat wrote:Conceptually, I can agree with this. However, few people live in a conceptual world...
Nor do I. Which is why I was not speaking conceptually. I know full well that most writers write from what they know, which is why the unremarked and uncritically accepted prevalence of negative stereotypes and prejudices in fandom storytelling disturbs me so much. Misidentifying unlove as love is a wretched, dangerous falsehood. True, ignorance itself is not a lie. But a person who speaks a lie out of ignorance is participating in that lie all the same. Believing a lie enough to promote it in one's communications does not transform the lie into a truth, nor exonerate even the unwitting, unintentional liar (perhaps even the well-intentioned liar) from the consequences of advocating falsehood. Gather enough voices into a community that proclaim an evil precept, and the pattern or trend that emerges becomes a terrible destructive force. To this unloving gravitational pull, I vehemently object.
If you wish to explore more of the relationship between stereotypes, prejudices, and lies, I can pull in some beautiful material from my favorite American novel,
To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee.
Pat wrote:Again, I'm wondering if you are referring to the SND approach.
Again, no. I have no personal investment in Catherine Chandler, whether alive or dead. The SND issue is not an especially significant part of my dreaming. I'm glad, though, that Jackson's book supports your hope to pursue your own dreams.
Pat wrote:But I need more explanation as to what the assumptions are that fandom makes that have you seeing them as denying the Dream. Actually, if you could cite a few examples of what you have encountered, that would help me. What culturally approved boundaries for "love" do you mean?
Examples are in the fanfiction threads, and others, we've created in this forum. The narrow allotment for what romantic love is permitted to entail, and the ugly roles sex is frequently forced to play in fanfiction. Assumptions about ability and disability, wealth and poverty, race, gender relations, freaks, personality styles, mainstream citizens and outcasts from the mainstream, the purpose and function of Father's underworld, the very nature of love and Vincent's purported failures to love "correctly." Scary stuff like that.
In addition, this is not about finding a perfect match for my personal vision of the fairy tale in fanfiction. I can quibble about how my own preferences compare and contrast with stories like
"Shakespeare" and
"In the Fell Clutch of Circumstance", but these tales uphold the Dream that Koslow presented to the world. They build upon the truth, beauty, and nobility of the characters and so build up those same features in readers who partake in ongoing fan-led storytelling.
However, stories like
"Keys to the Kingdom" and
"A Matter of Place" distort the truth, corrupt the beauty, and dismantle the nobility of Koslow's characters...and so the readers of these fanfictions are negatively influenced as well.
Pat wrote:I do understand the part of substitutions; this is what some in fandom wish to believe and do not want it trifled with in any way.
Cherished beliefs based upon unloving stereotypes and prejudices ought not be considered unassailable simply because they are valued by their believers. So, I work to understand what is happening within a group of people who insist that Love in its deepest and purest forms DOES NOT exist. CANNOT exist. That the characters of the show did not experience such deep and pure Love, so fans who hold such beliefs must reject many essential elements of the show and substitute their own brokenness for deep beauty. I aver that deepest and purest Love DOES exist, and B&B gives us a powerful example of what it can be.
In any case, this is what I'm trying to accomplish: to counter unlove with love in my self, my life, and my art--
Zara wrote:Today, however, I am thinking that a new emotion I wish to feel and meditate upon...is pity. Not pity in the sense that American English often uses the word, as a synonym for contempt. Rather, pity as a quiet recognition of brokenness or deprivation in someone's life. I know that Love, REAL LOVE, and TRUE BEAUTY, just as they are depicted in Koslow's B&B, can and do exist. Love does not need to be fixed, redirected, or normalized to be satisfying or actual, whether in Koslow's fantasy or in real life. I am discovering pity for elements in fandom who celebrate an ignorance of Love's complete reality. Pity for those who glorify that poverty of imagination which immunizes the soul against full engagement with beautiful Dreams and ideas. Pity for those who rely on stereotypes and prejudices as guides to understanding the world and themselves. People are so hungry for Love, yet they become ensnared in the belief that Love only appears in certain guises, under such-and-such conditions. I keep coming back to Diana Bennett's line: If all you're willing to see is what you've seen before, you're gonna miss half of what's going on. The act of "normalizing" this story is the act of forcing it to assume a shape one has already seen before, rather than allowing it to rejuvenate one's imagination in the direction of fresh possibilities. "Normalizing" recreates the story into a shape it was never meant to hold. It shows us what unlove looks like...but claims it's showing us Love. That is so scary to me. I hate being lied to. Especially by people who don't know they are cultivating and promoting a lie.
I am deliberately adding pity to my immediate emotional repertoire of many possible responses to this kind of tragedy in human society. It's my way of connecting anger with compassion in pursuit of beauty and love. Just wanted to share part of that process in here.
~ Zara
It is okay, my dear stressed-out Pat, to wait to read and respond to posts until your circumstances stabilize and you have leisure to pursue pastimes that are unrelated to your livelihood. ***hugs*** I'm sorry technical misfortunes have caused you such grief and frustration. I hope the problem can be resolved as swiftly and painlessly as possible.
[quote="Pat"]I suspect there is an element of conformity about which you are reacting in this situation.[/quote]
My friend, where there is love, I don't bother myself about matters of conformity, for love does not demand conformity. Where there is love, I join and cultivate the loving activity with all that I am. Where there is unlove, however, I resist conforming to unloving purposes with all that I am. You describe "normalization" as a natural process of centralized acclimation to elements from "outer boundaries." I am speaking of "normalization" as the forcible masking and restraint of vibrant beauty through the application of negative stereotypes. Our definitions are at odds.
[quote="Pat"]I invite you to consider that this show is a teacher for whom the student is ready...[/quote]
I know that. None better.
[quote="Pat"]...some may never see in this show what you or I see.[/quote]
I know that too.
[quote="Pat"]The entertainment arts are subjective, however...[/quote]
Art is not subjective. Art appreciation is subjective. Art is a specific statement made by the artist(s). Interpretation is a reactive statement made by the recipient of the artwork: a basic statement can be made in response to the artwork at an initial level, and further statements may occur during interaction with the artistic message at deeper levels, and over time.
[quote="Pat"]By this do you mean, for example, stories where Catherine never dies?[/quote]
Nope. "She never dies" tales feature a popular plot device in fandom, not the trend of unloving stereotypes and prejudices that I am wrangling here. In pondering "corrective" abridgements of the Dream, SND never crossed my mind.
[quote="Pat"]Conceptually, I can agree with this. However, few people live in a conceptual world...[/quote]
Nor do I. Which is why I was not speaking conceptually. I know full well that most writers write from what they know, which is why the unremarked and uncritically accepted prevalence of negative stereotypes and prejudices in fandom storytelling disturbs me so much. Misidentifying unlove as love is a wretched, dangerous falsehood. True, ignorance itself is not a lie. But a person who speaks a lie out of ignorance is participating in that lie all the same. Believing a lie enough to promote it in one's communications does not transform the lie into a truth, nor exonerate even the unwitting, unintentional liar (perhaps even the well-intentioned liar) from the consequences of advocating falsehood. Gather enough voices into a community that proclaim an evil precept, and the pattern or trend that emerges becomes a terrible destructive force. To this unloving gravitational pull, I vehemently object.
If you wish to explore more of the relationship between stereotypes, prejudices, and lies, I can pull in some beautiful material from my favorite American novel, [i]To Kill a Mockingbird[/i], by Harper Lee.
[quote="Pat"]Again, I'm wondering if you are referring to the SND approach.[/quote]
Again, no. I have no personal investment in Catherine Chandler, whether alive or dead. The SND issue is not an especially significant part of my dreaming. I'm glad, though, that Jackson's book supports your hope to pursue your own dreams.
[quote="Pat"]But I need more explanation as to what the assumptions are that fandom makes that have you seeing them as denying the Dream. Actually, if you could cite a few examples of what you have encountered, that would help me. What culturally approved boundaries for "love" do you mean? [/quote]
Examples are in the fanfiction threads, and others, we've created in this forum. The narrow allotment for what romantic love is permitted to entail, and the ugly roles sex is frequently forced to play in fanfiction. Assumptions about ability and disability, wealth and poverty, race, gender relations, freaks, personality styles, mainstream citizens and outcasts from the mainstream, the purpose and function of Father's underworld, the very nature of love and Vincent's purported failures to love "correctly." Scary stuff like that.
In addition, this is not about finding a perfect match for my personal vision of the fairy tale in fanfiction. I can quibble about how my own preferences compare and contrast with stories like [url=http://www.batbland.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=129]"Shakespeare"[/url] and [url=http://www.batbland.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=131]"In the Fell Clutch of Circumstance"[/url], but these tales uphold the Dream that Koslow presented to the world. They build upon the truth, beauty, and nobility of the characters and so build up those same features in readers who partake in ongoing fan-led storytelling.
However, stories like [url=http://www.batbland.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=143]"Keys to the Kingdom"[/url] and [url=http://www.batbland.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=854#p854]"A Matter of Place"[/url] distort the truth, corrupt the beauty, and dismantle the nobility of Koslow's characters...and so the readers of these fanfictions are negatively influenced as well.
[quote="Pat"]I do understand the part of substitutions; this is what some in fandom wish to believe and do not want it trifled with in any way.[/quote]
Cherished beliefs based upon unloving stereotypes and prejudices ought not be considered unassailable simply because they are valued by their believers. So, I work to understand what is happening within a group of people who insist that Love in its deepest and purest forms DOES NOT exist. CANNOT exist. That the characters of the show did not experience such deep and pure Love, so fans who hold such beliefs must reject many essential elements of the show and substitute their own brokenness for deep beauty. I aver that deepest and purest Love DOES exist, and B&B gives us a powerful example of what it can be.
In any case, this is what I'm trying to accomplish: to counter unlove with love in my self, my life, and my art--
[quote="Zara"]Today, however, I am thinking that a new emotion I wish to feel and meditate upon...is pity. Not pity in the sense that American English often uses the word, as a synonym for contempt. Rather, pity as a quiet recognition of brokenness or deprivation in someone's life. I know that Love, REAL LOVE, and TRUE BEAUTY, just as they are depicted in Koslow's B&B, can and do exist. Love does not need to be fixed, redirected, or normalized to be satisfying or actual, whether in Koslow's fantasy or in real life. I am discovering pity for elements in fandom who celebrate an ignorance of Love's complete reality. Pity for those who glorify that poverty of imagination which immunizes the soul against full engagement with beautiful Dreams and ideas. Pity for those who rely on stereotypes and prejudices as guides to understanding the world and themselves. People are so hungry for Love, yet they become ensnared in the belief that Love only appears in certain guises, under such-and-such conditions. I keep coming back to Diana Bennett's line: If all you're willing to see is what you've seen before, you're gonna miss half of what's going on. The act of "normalizing" this story is the act of forcing it to assume a shape one has already seen before, rather than allowing it to rejuvenate one's imagination in the direction of fresh possibilities. "Normalizing" recreates the story into a shape it was never meant to hold. It shows us what unlove looks like...but claims it's showing us Love. That is so scary to me. I hate being lied to. Especially by people who don't know they are cultivating and promoting a lie.[/quote]
I am deliberately adding pity to my immediate emotional repertoire of many possible responses to this kind of tragedy in human society. It's my way of connecting anger with compassion in pursuit of beauty and love. Just wanted to share part of that process in here.
~ Zara