by cindyrae77 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:32 pm
Hmmm. (And as always, you make me think, here.)
Thematically, we get not only Vincent in this one, but Jacob, and the almost inherent 'conflict' between the two, regarding the world Above.
It ALMOST seems like a conflict of two different perceptions of the world, vs. two different realities. (I say 'almost' because Jacob isn't wrong in his notion that the world Above is 'too dangerous' for Laura. But for a well placed basement pipe and a Vincent intervention, Laura would have paid for her bravery with her life. So there is that.)
I try to keep that in mind when discussing Jacob, for the same reason it's good to keep such things in mind when discussing Vincent. It helps me to not paint him unfairly, when I'm characterizing him. (It's tough to characterize Jacob as 'overprotective' when he's not exactly wrong, at times.)
For Jacob, the world Above is 'the madness is up there,' and this episode confirms that his view hasn't changed, or softened, any.
FATHER
I understand the problem enough to know it isn’t ours.
VINCENT
Does our world exempt its people from moral responsibility?
FATHER
No, it offers them sanctuary from an impossible madness.
Especially those who most need to be protected … like the girl.
VINCENT
Laura is no long a girl.
FATHER
She’s still vulnerable. Exposing her to something like that …
Vincent, here we’ve given her a chance to heal.
VINCENT
And to hide. I know Laura’s pain. When she first came here
her soul was broken, and our love helped
it to mend … but the time will come when she
will need to grow beyond all of this … beyond us.
FATHER
You think that time is now?
VINCENT
Without Laura’s word, Catherine has no case.
An innocent man goes to prison.
That should mean something to you.
FATHER
Our priority is still to Laura.
VINCENT
Before you said the problem was not ours.
Well … neither is the decision.
---
Both of these characters say so many pivotal things, here. (Also, when Vincent is describing the abandoned Laura to Catherine, he openly says "It broke my heart." That isn't a 'light' pronouncement of how he felt.)
Vincent is firm. (Does living Below absent us from a moral responsibility to the rest of the world? - It's a problem they'll face again, pointedly, in "A Gentle Rain," with largely the same results. Kanin Evans, too, will choose to go Above, and 'do the right thing.')
"I know her pain." says Vincent. And of course, he does. There are unmistakable parallels here, as both were abandoned (by their respective parents, we assume, - we know it in Laura's case, we suspect it, in Vincent's) But which pain is he speaking about, specifically? The pain of being abandoned? The need to grow beyond "all this?' The pain of being different, of being 'cut off from others,' the way Laura's deafness does for her, and Vincent's beast-like appearance does for him? The pain of seeing crime, yet not being able to testify? (Do we assume Vincent has been in that position also, at some point? It's likely that he has.)
And in the end, we get Vincent's conclusion that any conversation between him and Jacob is moot. Laura, (no longer a child) can (and must) make her own choice in the matter. Even Laura's request of 'tell me what to do' will be rebuffed, by Vincent.
We know this is a hallmark of Vincent's character; that 'choice' be both offered and accepted, by those affected.
I try to look and see if his interactions with Catherine have this same flavor, and to a great degree, they do. With Catherine, too, he tells her that her life, her choices have made her strong, and that she must use that strength to do all she can, and ultimately, all she must.
Also, interestingly, with both Laura and Catherine, he seems fairly certain that the choices will ultimately take them away from him. (Whether he feels that the separation will be either temporary or permanent is perhaps anyone's guess. He tells Laura that of course she can come back, and that she'll always have a home, Below. When Catherine left for Providence, he also indicated that she should go see the "world of wonders, of possibilities," and though he didn't mention that she'd be back, (because she might not be,) he didn't say she couldn't, either.)
Both Father and Vincent see the world as it is, a risky, sometimes perilous place. But Vincent steadfastly sees the 'wonder' of it, and the need to do justice in it, in both the world Below and the one Above.
It's interesting that Catherine is a lawyer, then, when you think about it. In that while Jacob sees 'justice' as a thing primarily owed to those Below, by those Below, Vincent sees it as a thing owed to all, by all. He is very concerned that a man he's never met, (and not a good man, we come to understand in the episode) go to prison for a crime he didn't commit.
Catherine either (not sure how to say this,) seems to either 'speak to that part of him' that wants justice, or it was always a thing about her which he found compelling. (He didn't know she was a lawyer when he rescued her, but it was a thing he knew at some point, after.)
As a lawyer, she's a 'justice giver.' As a woman of two worlds, she can help to give that both Above, and Below. (She's already helped Jacob out in SOO and we know she'll do more, come AGR.)
Vincent himself asked her to become involved in "A Children's Story," and worried for her in "The Beast Within," fearing perhaps that she was pushing herself too far, even though he agreed with the merits of prosecuting Mitch Denton.
Vincent almost seems to have a 'relationship' with both 'justice' and 'choice,' While perhaps we could say Jacob has one between 'justice' and 'safety.'
It's that second dynamic where the two bump heads, and it colors each of their perceptions not only of the world Above, (and Below) but also of Catherine, to some degree, perhaps.
As a side note: The closest Vincent and Catherine came to an open conflict (besides the "Providence" scene in NIBAC) was when Catherine feared that Vincent was on the wrong side of the law, in Terrible Savior. It was literally nightmare inducing, for her.
Does that mean she may not fear him as a Beast, but she feared him as an unjust one? (The woman who states steadily "I am not afraid" clearly was, in her nightmare on the balcony, in TS.)
Sorry if these observations are all over the place, episode wise!
Hmmm. (And as always, you make me think, here.)
Thematically, we get not only Vincent in this one, but Jacob, and the almost inherent 'conflict' between the two, regarding the world Above.
It ALMOST seems like a conflict of two different perceptions of the world, vs. two different realities. (I say 'almost' because Jacob isn't wrong in his notion that the world Above is 'too dangerous' for Laura. But for a well placed basement pipe and a Vincent intervention, Laura would have paid for her bravery with her life. So there is that.)
I try to keep that in mind when discussing Jacob, for the same reason it's good to keep such things in mind when discussing Vincent. It helps me to not paint him unfairly, when I'm characterizing him. (It's tough to characterize Jacob as 'overprotective' when he's not exactly wrong, at times.)
For Jacob, the world Above is 'the madness is up there,' and this episode confirms that his view hasn't changed, or softened, any.
FATHER
I understand the problem enough to know it isn’t ours.
VINCENT
Does our world exempt its people from moral responsibility?
FATHER
No, it offers them sanctuary from an impossible madness.
Especially those who most need to be protected … like the girl.
VINCENT
Laura is no long a girl.
FATHER
She’s still vulnerable. Exposing her to something like that …
Vincent, here we’ve given her a chance to heal.
VINCENT
And to hide. I know Laura’s pain. When she first came here
her soul was broken, and our love helped
it to mend … but the time will come when she
will need to grow beyond all of this … beyond us.
FATHER
You think that time is now?
VINCENT
Without Laura’s word, Catherine has no case.
An innocent man goes to prison.
That should mean something to you.
FATHER
Our priority is still to Laura.
VINCENT
Before you said the problem was not ours.
Well … neither is the decision.
---
Both of these characters say so many pivotal things, here. (Also, when Vincent is describing the abandoned Laura to Catherine, he openly says "It broke my heart." That isn't a 'light' pronouncement of how he felt.)
Vincent is firm. (Does living Below absent us from a moral responsibility to the rest of the world? - It's a problem they'll face again, pointedly, in "A Gentle Rain," with largely the same results. Kanin Evans, too, will choose to go Above, and 'do the right thing.')
"I know her pain." says Vincent. And of course, he does. There are unmistakable parallels here, as both were abandoned (by their respective parents, we assume, - we know it in Laura's case, we suspect it, in Vincent's) But which pain is he speaking about, specifically? The pain of being abandoned? The need to grow beyond "all this?' The pain of being different, of being 'cut off from others,' the way Laura's deafness does for her, and Vincent's beast-like appearance does for him? The pain of seeing crime, yet not being able to testify? (Do we assume Vincent has been in that position also, at some point? It's likely that he has.)
And in the end, we get Vincent's conclusion that any conversation between him and Jacob is moot. Laura, (no longer a child) can (and must) make her own choice in the matter. Even Laura's request of 'tell me what to do' will be rebuffed, by Vincent.
We know this is a hallmark of Vincent's character; that 'choice' be both offered and accepted, by those affected.
I try to look and see if his interactions with Catherine have this same flavor, and to a great degree, they do. With Catherine, too, he tells her that her life, her choices have made her strong, and that she must use that strength to do all she can, and ultimately, all she must.
Also, interestingly, with both Laura and Catherine, he seems fairly certain that the choices will ultimately take them away from him. (Whether he feels that the separation will be either temporary or permanent is perhaps anyone's guess. He tells Laura that of course she can come back, and that she'll always have a home, Below. When Catherine left for Providence, he also indicated that she should go see the "world of wonders, of possibilities," and though he didn't mention that she'd be back, (because she might not be,) he didn't say she couldn't, either.)
Both Father and Vincent see the world as it is, a risky, sometimes perilous place. But Vincent steadfastly sees the 'wonder' of it, and the need to do justice in it, in both the world Below and the one Above.
It's interesting that Catherine is a lawyer, then, when you think about it. In that while Jacob sees 'justice' as a thing primarily owed to those Below, by those Below, Vincent sees it as a thing owed to all, by all. He is very concerned that a man he's never met, (and not a good man, we come to understand in the episode) go to prison for a crime he didn't commit.
Catherine either (not sure how to say this,) seems to either 'speak to that part of him' that wants justice, or it was always a thing about her which he found compelling. (He didn't know she was a lawyer when he rescued her, but it was a thing he knew at some point, after.)
As a lawyer, she's a 'justice giver.' As a woman of two worlds, she can help to give that both Above, and Below. (She's already helped Jacob out in SOO and we know she'll do more, come AGR.)
Vincent himself asked her to become involved in "A Children's Story," and worried for her in "The Beast Within," fearing perhaps that she was pushing herself too far, even though he agreed with the merits of prosecuting Mitch Denton.
Vincent almost seems to have a 'relationship' with both 'justice' and 'choice,' While perhaps we could say Jacob has one between 'justice' and 'safety.'
It's that second dynamic where the two bump heads, and it colors each of their perceptions not only of the world Above, (and Below) but also of Catherine, to some degree, perhaps.
As a side note: The closest Vincent and Catherine came to an open conflict (besides the "Providence" scene in NIBAC) was when Catherine feared that Vincent was on the wrong side of the law, in Terrible Savior. It was literally nightmare inducing, for her.
Does that mean she may not fear him as a Beast, but she feared him as an unjust one? (The woman who states steadily "I am not afraid" clearly was, in her nightmare on the balcony, in TS.)
Sorry if these observations are all over the place, episode wise!